If you follow this blog you have certainly come across the article on the flying steeple-chaser, G. Papavasileiou, (who, sadly, passed away recently). In that article I tell the story of how did I come to meet Kostas Tsagkarakis. When researching for my "flying steeple-chaser" article, I discovered the existence of a book he had written, I met him and we ended up becoming close friends. For months (years?) now I have been pestering him for an interview. I managed to convince him and, in one of my recent travels to Greece, we sat down and had a lengthy discussion. Below I give a (non-verbatim) transcription of the interview.
BG. How did you come to love athletics?
KT. I started running already since I was a child. In our school we had a very big schoolyard and during breaks we were running all the time. Our schoolteacher was organising competitions every year and there I realised that I was not good at speed events. So I started interesting myself in longer events. Even if I was not the best in the latter I was, at least, competitive. So I've been running since I was 9 years old.
Growing up things gradually became more serious. I could train in the stadium of the physical education academy, which was very close to my house. One year I participated in a popular competition organised by the main athletic journal of the time, "Athlitiki Icho". It was a 5 km race starting at the Panathenaic stadium. For my first participation I arrived at 53rd position among 400 participants. The following year I finished 8th. Various club representatives were at the arrival looking for promising new talents. Myself, I had been working, during the off-school hours, at a printing shop held by the Misailides brothers. That was the family of Ilias Misailides, a well-known champion, specialist of 400 m, belonging to the club of Panionios. Naturally I ended up belonging to the club of Panionios. During my high-school years I participated in a competition organised by the municipality of Dafni. I ran 2.5 km and finished first. The following year I convinced a friend of mine to join me. That was a bad idea because he finished first and I had to content myself with second place. After finishing high-school I stopped training at Panionios (more on Panionios later).
A parenthesis here
Our printing shop was responsible for all things related to athletic events. So I could always manage to obtain an invitation for the competitions held in the Panathenaic Stadium.
BG. And I would add two personal remarks at this point.
First, I was not missing a single competition in the Panathenaic stadium since the end of the 50s. So, there a big chance that we may have been seated next to each other with Kostas, in particular when G. Papavasileiou was running the steeples.
Second, I have trained for two-three seasons at the beginning of the 60s in the Panionios stadium. So, I may have bumped into Kostas there, but properly meeting him had to wait for 50 more years.
Back to the interview
KT. Before proceeding, a funny story on steeple chase. As you know I was an admirer of our great champion G. Papavasileiou. One day I decided to show to a friend of mine how does one jump the river. In my training in Panionios, under Misailides and Depastas, we had also been doing hurdle exercises. So I was confident that I could show the proper technique of jumping over the river. There was no water in the river, not enough lighting, and I had a short, 10 m, run-up. So I ended up falling head-first in the hole and I had to be reanimated. I spent three months recovering and that ended my steeple ambitions.
After high school I had to decide what to do professionally and I obtained a position in the National Bank. I spent a few years in various provinces (where I continued running) and then was transferred to Athens. Upon arriving to Athens my first priority became to finish my studies: I was studying law in the University of Athens. After obtaining my diploma I had to do my military service. During my service I was running with my combat boots, having heard that Zatopek was training with these heavy shoes so as to feel lighter when wearing his spikes.
The Marathon saga
During the years I was frequenting the Panathenaic Stadium I became aware of the Marathon race. At that time the classical race was held on April 6th, the Olympic Day. Many big names among foreign runners were participating in this competition. I remember having seen the famous B. Abebe running the classical marathon (me too). I was impressed but also envious. My great desire was to be able to run a marathon, be it once.
Once I had finished with the military service, that was in August 75, I started running from the very next day. And I have never stopped. I am joking saying that I have yet to arrive at my destination. So I decided to participate in the marathon, but the race was reserved to 'official' athletes. The fact that I belonged to Panionios came in handy at this point. I contacted my ex-coach and told him I wished to run the marathon. He was somewhat astonished and he asked me whether I was running 300-400 km per month. What could I answer, when my quota was around 100-120. I mumbled something and he agreed to let me participate.
That was my first bad experience. At that time the conditions were far from favourable. Once the champions had passed for the remaining runners the ones who could finish in 3, 3 and a half hours there was nothing. No water was left in the intermediate stations and moreover the weather was hot despite the season (April). At the 36 km there was in the middle of the road a separation with grass and which was being watered. I could not resist I started drinking without a second thought but as I lowered myself I got a severe cramp and could not even stand. So I could only drop out of the race and waited for the security vehicle to pick me up. That was my first negative experience from the marathon: I arrived at the stadium on a stretcher.
In October another marathon race was organised, this time open to everybody. I was more experienced and knew that I had to drink more. What we were doing along the road is to ask for water at the various coffee shops. Sometimes there were peasants, working the field, who were offering us water. I finished my first marathon in 5 hours.
The first organisations
I started forming a group together with other runners and participating in popular running events. The group started growing and we were participating under the label "the athletes from A. Kosmas", from the name fo the stadium where we were training. We were training without any supervision inventing our own program. Our motto, was "run a marathon, you can do it", we had even a banner with this. (Now that I think about this, I am not convinced that it was a good advice: a marathon needs serious preparation, training, medical supervision. But at that time we were naive). In order to encourage people along this direction we decided to organise an open competition over 20 km, in May 1978. That was a first for Greece. We asked the national athletics federation to help us by appointing judges but they only laughed at us, hinting that we were running in order to stay slim. In 1981 we decided to create our own association the "club of running for health" (of Athens). Upon creating the club I assumed the presidency (for one year mandate). We were organising the 20 km competition and later a 10 km. The starting and arrival was in A. Kosmas. Later we started organising, in May, a competition in Ymittos, over 2, 4 and 8 km.
We started helping the peripheral municipalities in organising competitions. I liked offering my services and was good at organising. I was keeping notes and a written record after the race. Our club or runners for health got imitators. Several clubs of `health runners' were created all over Greece.
Back to the Marathon
I was pursuing my marathon dream. At that time there was still a US military base in Athens and they organised a marathon. It was again in spring and again around noontime. Unfortunately two days before the race I had a small accident with my scooter where I hurt my leg. Since I was really painful I decided to take an analgesic pill before the marathon start. I took a double dose without reading the contraindications. Had I read them I would have seen that the medicine produced somnolence. At some point I realised that I was running half-asleep and so I decided to drop out of the race. That was the second time I abandoned a race. In fact there was a third one. That was again because of dehydration, due to lack of experience. I was so thirsty that I asked a passing truck driver to give me something to drink. Unfortunately the fruit juice he offered me was too cold and I immediately vomited it. Those were the only three times I dis not finish a marathon. So up to now I have completed 42 marathons, the last one in 2019. I adore the classical marathon and when I am running the classical race this gives me strength to finish it although it's one of the most difficult. I am afraid that if I tried another marathon I would not be able to finish it. Of course having run so often I know the classical route by heart.
Organising Marathons
At one point I decided that I had to do something in order to improve the organisation of the classical marathon. Our first action was at the start of a marathon, just when the television crew was filming, to show a banner protesting for the bad organisation of the classical race. We missed participating in the marathon but we could at least voice our discontent. We were collecting data on the participation of foreigners but also their critiques. I started writing to the greek athletics federation. The member of the federation responsible for the marathon was heeding my complains but his answer was that whatever he proposed was ignored by the higher-ups. In the end he suggested that I present personally my ideas at the council. That was in 1998-99 and from that time I never stopped. At the beginning I met quite some hostility but fortunately the councils of the federations are not permanent. What did also help was the fact that the federation realised that the classical marathon could become a major event and even help financially.
Although I haven't participated in races abroad I knew, having discussed with the foreigners who were coming for the classical marathon, I had a good idea on how were marathons organised abroad. Since I had a voice in the council I could try to implement some simple changes. Sometimes it took years even for something simple but in the end it was done. In the beginning one had to pay for the commemorative medal. For me that was against the athletic spirit. Still to tell the truth, at that time you did not have to pay anything for your participation. Unfortunately this is no more so and that was a decision taken contrary to my recommendations.
Fortunately our reactions had a result and in 1983 was organised the first marathon in memory of G. Lambrakis (the well-known politician, physician, track and field athlete, and associate-professor in the University of Athens assassinated by far-right extremists in 1963. He was a prominent anti-war activist and marched alone the Marathon – Athens Peace Rally in 1963). The marathon race, at that time, was known as the Peace Marathon.
Later, when Alpha Bank became the main sponsor of the marathon the word "peace" disappeared from the marathon. All the participants of the marathon were getting a medal upon their arrival, but that was a medal without ribbon. I was finding that inappropriate and the argument that "threading the ribbon was too much work" downright ridiculous. People would be so proud to wear the medal on their chest and the ceremony having the medal handed by a lady in traditional attire, a unique experience. One thing that was also done were the kilometric indications. Now there are permanent along the marathon route, but of course every five years the distance is measured afresh with great precision. The actual record of the classical marathon goes back to the 2004 Olympics and is held by A. Baldini.
Organising Clubs
I am living in the suburb of Nea Ionia. as soon we moved there in 1986, I enquired about the possibilities for athletics and I found out that the football field was in fact a perfect stadium, with a 400 m, 8 lane, track. When I saw that, I started training and with the help of the runners for health I organised an athletics meeting. What was missing was a club. So in 1988 I organised an athletics competition for the school children of Nea Ionia. At the beginning only three schools participated. (Today there are more than 40 with more than 1200 participants).
The need for a club was clear, since the talented children were seeking nearby clubs in order to pursue their activities. Everybody was discouraging me saying that only football can flourish in Nea Ionia, never athletics. Finally I decided to create the club myself. Of course, I could not do this alone. My friend, G. Ioannou, professor of physical education, did help me a lot. He is now deputy mayor, responsible of sports. I knew several people of Nea Ionia who were running and I presented them the idea. They all agreed, provided I took care of that. We had already several potential athletes among the school-boys and girls. G. Ioannou would take care of training and I had to assume the administrative tasks. I convened a first meeting among interested people, also, in order to see if there were enough potential members. In this meeting, where I explained our plan, and the need for financial support in order to launch the club. So in 1996 we created the sports club of Nea Ionia under the name of Anatoli, a reference to the origin of most inhabitants of Nea Ionia, who came from Asia Minor in 1922. But also an allusion (since Anatoli means both East and Sunrise) to the fact that the club will never reach its sunset. And now, 24 years later, the club is still thriving.
We are organising annually road races for school children, with traffic security, medical coverage, prizes and each year the race was devoted to something important,: environment, against drugs or smoking, against violence, against bulling etc. And this was accompanied by series of conferences where the parents of the schoolchildren were also invited. We had a great success. In 1996, we organised a painting exhibition with the theme of Olympic Games. But I wished to introduce something reminding the first, 1896, Olympics. The one name everybody knows is that of S. Louis, the marathon winner. I found somebody who had a physical resemblance to Louis, I convinced him to dress in the traditional peasants manner in which Louis is depicted in many photos. He did not take the start together of the official race but was hidden in a corner close to the arrival and when the others came close he started running finishing first. That had a great success.
I have the complete archives of 30 years' organisations, since they started in 1986.
At this point we started discussing the books Kostas Tsagkarakis has authored. Since I feel that this merits a special presentation (although I have written about the book of G. Papavasileiou) we shall conclude this part of the interview here.
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